Welcome to Canadaquaria. Members please log in.

Please register to view all topics

Guests may view and use the Aquariums for Beginners area, Freshwater General Section without registering.

Registered members see Canadaquaria advertisement free.


Need Advice Please

Post new topic   Reply to topic

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:05 am

Hello! Smile

I have a 29 gallon tank.
The ph level is 6.0-6.1 and the kh is 8-15.

After much researching I think I finally decided what I will put in my tank however I would like some advice.

I would like to stock my tank with:
A pair of blue rams
A pair of swordtails
6 neon tetras

The blue rams are an absolute must. They are my favorite freshwater fish. Any advice on care or helpful tips would be very much appreciated.

Swordtails: I'm unsure about if my ph levels are appropriate for them. Some articles say 7.0 whiles others say 6.0. Will they breed at 6.0? If swordtails are not suitable would you mind recommending a species that would be acceptable?

Neon Tetras: Is 6 too much? Are they considered a hardy fish? I'm getting mixed opinions about them on the Internet.

Thank you! Smile
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by CAAIndie on Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:55 am

I made a little post about your pH/hardness on your tank journal. In short, I would say hardness is actually a better criteria to use when evaluating what fish to choose for your water, and I would test the water after it is aged for a bit. As the two numbers together posted seem strange to me.

I'll let some of our livebearer enthusiasts comment on the swordtails. Smile

Neon tetra were once considered quite hardy fish, particularly in the wild. Unfortunately most that you see are actually from large fish farms, and are notoriously sensitive these days (for a number of reasons, poor breeding practices, and basically being raised in antibiotic soup). That's not to say they wouldn't work necessarily though.

_________________

Canadaquaria Administrator
www.Canadaquaria.ca
avatar
CAAIndie
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2850
Join date : 2013-09-06

http://www.Canadaquaria.ca

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Aquaman_95 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:25 am

I rarely recommend neon tetras for anyone's aquarium anymore, due to the fact of how sensitive they are. If you want neon tetras, I would wait until your tank is fully cycled. There are other really good tetra options such as Buenos Aires tetras, lemon tetras, or black neon tetras.

Swordtails are fairly hardy, though they prefer a pH of 7.0 and higher. They do well with a KH of 12-30.
avatar
Aquaman_95
Shrimp
Shrimp

Posts : 94
Join date : 2015-03-02
Location : Warner Robins, Georgia, United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Fishypastor on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:27 am

Can't comment on the others, but can a little bit on the neon tetras. I've found them to be reasonably hardy if they are in a stable, cycled tank, but they are somewhat susceptible to ich I've found... then again so are many other fish. If your tank is healthy they should live long and healthy. I'd try 3 once you tank is cycled and then add more if those ones are doing good.
avatar
Fishypastor
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 299
Join date : 2014-11-15
Location : Saskatchewan

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Starfish on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:18 pm

I would be cautious about getting the buenos aires tetras. The can grow to 3 inches and can be nippy to other fish. They prefer to be in groups (as do most tetras) and you would need 6 or more to help curb the aggression. A 29g would not be big enough for that, especially if you want a community tank. Buenos aires tetras are major plant eaters. I had a couple, and they were beautiful fish, but they decimated my plants so I took them to the LFS. I have enough trouble growing plants as it is without the fish making it worse. Embarassed All that being said, they are a hardy fish, and I know you said you were going with plastic plants.

The neon tetras can be hardy or sensitive. I have had both. They look great in large schools and would be a great size for your tank. Six is definitely not too much. If they survive the move/transfer, then they could last a few years. I had a lone neon that came with a used tank (along with the BA tetras) and he lived for 2 years more. (until I moved it to my 10g and the black skirt ate it Evil or Very Mad)

Good luck with your choices. Very Happy  It is not easy with so many species to choose from. That is why most of us have more than one tank. Fishbowl
avatar
Starfish
Veteran Member
Veteran Member

Posts : 1196
Join date : 2013-09-08
Location : Southampton, Ontario

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:08 pm

Thank you everyone for all your advice!  Smile 

I would love to have more then 1 tank but I think my husband would kill me!  Lol Although I might sneak a 5 gallon in my nursery for a betta. Wink
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by CAAIndie on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:13 pm

HappyFish wrote:Thank you everyone for all your advice!  Smile 

I would love to have more then 1 tank but I think my husband would kill me!  Lol Although I might sneak a 5 gallon in my nursery for a betta. Wink
I'm trying to coax my way into the second tank too. Smile

_________________

Canadaquaria Administrator
www.Canadaquaria.ca
avatar
CAAIndie
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2850
Join date : 2013-09-06

http://www.Canadaquaria.ca

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:55 am

One thing I learned over the years is that tank raised fish differ from wild caught fish in there Requirements. water parameters for wild fish can be extremely different from captive bred fish. Don't get me wrong everyone, I belive in keeping fish as close to there natural surroundings as possiable but, Discus come from extremely soft high tannin water and I think you will be hard pressed to find many people keeping them in this type of water.i usually try to test the water the fish are in before I take them or find some one who is breeding them locally if possiable. The only fish I have found really a problem are Rams and from what I have read this is mainly due to over breeding that cause so many of them to be so week.
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:21 am

Oh dear! That isn't good news about rams at all!  Sad 

Hopefully the rams I get will be healthy enough to survive my tank. 

Of course any fish that is struggling due to my water I will take back to the pet store immediately. I will closely monitor all new fish I add.  Hopefully I will avoid killing any fish this way.

I was wondering if instead of treating my tap water letting it stand 48 hours when doing water changes. Would that be easier on the ram's system?  Or any fish?
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:31 am

Aged water is always beter as to decrease clorine out of the water with out using other chemicals to do so. Oour water on calgary has a perfect hardress for African chiclids but I've raised Discus, and many other south Americans in it for years.
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:35 am

Ok thank you!  I'll just wait out the 48 hours then. Smile
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:07 am

Calgary's water ranges from a Ph 6.5 - 8 at different times (spring run off) with a hardness of 200-240 ppm. You can go on line and check your municipalities water parameter's if you curious.
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:16 am

Unfortunately my city is so small there is little online information. I did call my city water which is where I got my numbers however I plan to do a home test as well. 

Is there any way to soften the water without added chemicals?  For now the goal is to just get the rams to survive but in the future I would love to try to breed them if it's possible.
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:52 am

You can use a peat moss to soften water but the tannins in the water turn your water to a tea color....lol great for Amazon biotope.
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:57 am

I was just actually reading about that! Smile Of course when I say I want to breed them I mean years from now. With my 5 month old I don't have too much free time. It's more wishful thinking right now!  Embarassed
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:04 am

If you way to use the peat moss method which I have done get a water barrel put the peat moss in nylon bags or old nylons ...lol use a power head to move the water around in the barrel and you will have all the water you need for water changes
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:55 am

Thank you for the tip! Very Happy
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by CAAIndie on Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:49 am

I've tried the peat method as well. I found that it was effective at slightly lowering the hardness of water, the slightly lowing the total dissolved solids in the water as well. On the old CAC forum (where a number of us came from before it shut down), I had recorded a bunch of entertaining little tests on its effects on my tap water. I could get it to reduce the hardness in the water by about 1 degree (and a corresponding amount of TDS) after 2 days, but it wouldn't do much of anything after that (I did a trial up to 10 days). I also managed to move my pH from about 8.1 to 7.8ish.

I definitely agree with Corvette70, that if you tried this method, to do it in a separate container. That way you can measure exactly what you are putting into the tank. There are some who like putting it directly in the tank, or in the filter, or around the filter. It's not a very accurate way of doing it, and you can run into some problems. 

Despite peat being considered natural (which doesn't mean I'm against it, as mentioned I have used it, and will use it again one day for a Dicrossus breeding project), doesn't mean it isn't chemical. The pH changes you can see with peat are because of the release of tannic acid. If you add a bit of acid to water with high carbonates/hard water (and thus a high buffering capacity), the water may drop slightly in pH for a few hours, but it will bounce back up very soon after. You can repeat this a number of times, and see the same result, until the buffering capacity of the water is reached. At that point, you add acid, and because there is no buffering capacity left, you can make the pH of the water swing an extreme amount! Fish like stability, and you can do some serious damage to fish. 

Many people think it isn't a big jump to push a tank from say a pH of 8 to 6, and they'll buy things from their LFS like "pH down". That's pretty much akin to dumping battery acid into the tank. You'll be able drop the pH by overwhelming the buffering capacity, and ending up with super volatile water. You do one water change with tap water, and then your pH will jump right back up to where it was (until you add more acid). It's complicated business, and one needs to keep in mind that the pH scale is logarithmic. What I mean by that is, a pH of 5 is 10 times more acidic than a pH of 6. Or in my example... a pH of 6 is 100 times more acidic than a pH of 6. If you make a tank jump around like that, it's super hard on the fish (that's my rant against store bought pH adjusters). I can natter on and on about pH shock versus TDS/Hardness shock on being what's usually the main culprit on fish, but I'll save for some other time. 

Basically I think the only truly effective tool to adjust very hard water to very soft water is a reverse osmosis system (which basically removes all or almost all dissolved solids like minerals in the water, resulting in volatile but neutral water). You also need a lot of patience. I've been using an RO system for a couple of years now, slowly mixing a greater % of reverse osmosis water with my tap water (which is used to buffer, and thus stabilize my water). I went from using 80% tap and 20% RO to now using 90% RO and 10% tap. In the end, I brought my water from being 12 degrees of hardness, to about 1 degree, and from a TDS of 450 to about 60, and pH from 8.1 to about 6.6 (over months). Since then the efficiency of my RO filter has gone down significantly, and I'm not actively trying to breed anything in soft water, it s bit harder now. It's a long processes, I mix my water in an external bucket before every change (and it takes me a couple hours to even make enough RO water for a water change). 

It's a lot of work, and sometimes I think I must be nuts for doing it. In the end, for keeping MOST fish, stability is more important than having the "perfect" water makeup. 

This was much more long winded than I wanted it to be. hah.


Last edited by CAAIndie on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________

Canadaquaria Administrator
www.Canadaquaria.ca
avatar
CAAIndie
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2850
Join date : 2013-09-06

http://www.Canadaquaria.ca

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Corvette70 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:58 am

Nicely put indie. Great info.
avatar
Corvette70
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 106
Join date : 2015-03-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:00 pm

It's all good!  The longer the explanation the more information I learn. Breeding them of course will be in the future where Im hoping to incorporate my daughter in the project and have a learning experience for the both of us. 

In the meantime it's great to learn what I can so when the time comes I'll be more prepared to make a decision.  Smile 

I just had to pick an advanced fish as my favorite!  Lol Wink 

Thank you though for the information!  I'm trying to absorb it in and will probably write down what I have learned to review in the future!  Very Happy
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by CAAIndie on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:07 pm

HappyFish wrote:It's all good!  The longer the explanation the more information I learn. Breeding them of course will be in the future where Im hoping to incorporate my daughter in the project and have a learning experience for the both of us. 

In the meantime it's great to learn what I can so when the time comes I'll be more prepared to make a decision.  Smile 

I just had to pick an advanced fish as my favorite!  Lol Wink 

Thank you though for the information!  I'm trying to absorb it in and will probably write down what I have learned to review in the future!  Very Happy


I certainly won't deny that I didn't enjoy the project. 

A labour of love for sure.

_________________

Canadaquaria Administrator
www.Canadaquaria.ca
avatar
CAAIndie
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2850
Join date : 2013-09-06

http://www.Canadaquaria.ca

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Biulu on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:10 pm

Swordtails are great fish and come in very nice varieties. But as with most livebearers, I would not buy a pair but 2 females and 1 male. Male livebearers only think about one thing and in their quest to create offspring can really harass a female. With 2 females this aggression will be spread over the two of them.
avatar
Biulu
Support

Posts : 3690
Join date : 2013-09-12
Location : Montreal, Quebec

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:17 am

Hi!

I know this sounds crazy but I'm been trying to figure out what exactly I really want in my tank. To be honest all I really want is a lot of tiny little fish in with a pair of blue rams. Would the rams be comfortable with just having neon tetras and cardinal tetras as tank mates?  I know they need other fish to be happy but I feel for a 29 gallon I don't want to add bigger fish then 1 inch (besides the ram's) to maximize the swimming area for them. 

Also I need advice on an offer from an friend.  He has a 50 gallon (which in my opinion was overstocked before the new arrivals) and recently recused about 15-20 convicts from one of his family members. They were kept in a 20 gallon tank and the water evaporated to the point the heater and filter didn't reach the water level. 
 
His offer was to let me borrow a couple of convicts to cyle my tank with. I read they were really messy and where they are from an overstocked tank (so might not be healthy though they do look and act healthy) I wondered if they might do more harm than good. They are also breeding at the moment and I'm worried about them breeding in my small 29 gallon and being stuck with the fry. I'm really uncomfortable keeping these fish longterm due to their aggression and size but if they have fry in my tank I know I would get attached and giving my friend the fry would be cruel due to the fact he's not even equipped to handle what fish he does have. What would you do in this situation?
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by Biulu on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:45 am

Refuse the offer! Convicts will breed anywhere so it is likely you will have fry.

Cardinal tetras are a good choice and I prefer them over the neons as they are hardier. I don't know though whether they are hardy enough to cycle with.
avatar
Biulu
Support

Posts : 3690
Join date : 2013-09-12
Location : Montreal, Quebec

Back to top Go down

Re: Need Advice Please

Post by HappyFish on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:50 am

Ahhhh I was afraid of that! 

That's good to know about the Cardinals though!  Smile
avatar
HappyFish
Angel Fish
Angel Fish

Posts : 137
Join date : 2015-04-13
Location : Saint John, New Brunswick

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Post new topic   Reply to topic
 
Permissions in this forum:
You can reply to topics in this forum